Digital Ethos on Digital Press Releases and Link Building!

November 4, 2022 | Interview

Welcome to Rankwatch’s Marketing Lego thought leader interview. Today we will talk to Mr. Luke Tobin, founder of Digital Ethos, about his journey of creating a successful full funnel marketing agency. We will also talk about Digital Press Releases and Link Building importance in Marketing.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to today’s Marketing Legos Thought Leader Interview. My name is Harshit and I am the director of Business Alliance of two brilliant marketing SAAS tools Rankwatch and Websignals and today’s special guest is the founder of one of the UK’s fastest-growing marketing agencies called Digital Ethos. Luke, welcome to the show. I’m so happy to host you today.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Luke, please tell us a bit about yourself, about your journey. You’re an investor, you’re a marketer, you’re a mentor, you plant a lot of trees. How are you like as a kid and how did you get to where you are today?

Yeah, it’s been an interesting journey. I guess my career started out actually completely different from marketing. I was in recruitment and then I owned a bar hire company for a little while and tried quite a few things. I guess I’ve always been very entrepreneurial and I then had a website, an online e-commerce website, which I needed to learn how to drive traffic to. So I started consuming lots of books and online courses and Google certificates and all those things to start trying to learn how to drive traffic to that website and actually found real love and passion for marketing. And this is probably 12 to 13 years ago now, I actually came to sell that business and then had the opportunity to go and work in my first agency. Just love the environment, I love the speed, I love the pressure, I love the fact that you have to spin lots of plates every day. The thing I wasn’t too sure about was the fact that there’s often, like, gaps between the service level of how happy the client is and there’s always this no man’s land that sits between the client and the agency of like, mistrust and delivery issues.
And I thought, God has got to be a way of, like, syncing this together and being more of a true partner for that client. So anyway, I had that idea for years, didn’t do anything with it, and then in 2016 decided to form Digital Ethos. It was just me in my bedroom. I’m back in here today in my bedroom with a few freelancers and started to scale up from there, which was great. And in early 2018, I hired my first full-time member of staff and now we’re at 55 people and it’s been an amazing journey. We’ve got multiple UK offices, we’ve also got a Toronto base, and we’re in Germany. And, yeah, it’s been a rapid but exciting journey and obviously sort of touching on other bits that I’ve got involved in. The success of the business has allowed me to really look at other things that I’m passionate about. So, sustainability, Eco-tech, and I’ve started to invest now through my own company, towing capital, in startup ventures and businesses that I think have got a purpose and real meaning.

Perfect. Let’s talk a bit more about the agency. What is the core expertise and what is the team in our case? Right now?

Yeah, so Digitally South is a team of 52. I think we are actually as of today, we are hiring a few roles as well. Our core focuses on our performance channel, so SEO, PPC or any paid channel, really paid social as well, organic social, PR, and then creative services. So videography, photography, design, and web design. So really full service. And actually that’s been an evolution. We started six years ago as an SEO agency, really, that did a little bit of web design and now we’ve literally bolted on other services and become sort of very specialist providers of each of those as we’ve developed. Nice.

And like coming to the development part. What are the platforms that you guys leverage? Is it limited to WordPress or is it more?

There’s a mix, I would say we’re probably 85% of the work we get in or the clients need us for it. Is WordPress still or PHP based? Anyway, we do have some Laravel and some Magento sites that we also support and host. And we’ve got three in-house developers and three partners that we work with externally for code bases or languages. We can’t do things like net et cetera, or Angular we would outsource, but there’s a lot we can do in-house as well. And really a lot of the web development team, outside of building full projects and builds, they support a lot of the marketing efforts as well, where we need landing pages, extra bits of technical work on-site for SEO, et cetera. So it’s a really diverse offering that fits the core marketing element of the business.

Oh, that’s so cool. And who’s an ideal fit to be a client of this? And are there specific criteria that you go through? And what scale of businesses are you guys mainly catering to?

Yeah, it’s a great question. It’s changed a lot over the years. So I think when you start off, you’re sort of happy to take any client, and then as it develops, we’ve moved to, I guess our sweet spot really is a mix of probably three. So like a larger SME that’s got a budget to spend maybe two and a half to £5000 a month type equivalent. And they need multi channels rather than just one channel. Tends to be good for us. A lot of e-commerce businesses as well over the last couple of years, especially, since the world’s gone a bit bonkers with online demand, so we’ve really pivoted to more e-commerce websites. We do still have an element of B2B and Legion though as well. And then I think there’s this whole segment of customers that we’ve started to support. We built a strategy team in the business about twelve months ago, so it’s now gone from one to four people within a year, which is great, but we really get into business intelligence with our clients. We understand what they’re trying to achieve over not just a twelve-month, but more of a 24 – 36 five-year plan.
Look at what that looks like from a sales and growth perspective and then almost reverse engineer that battery strategy and look at which channels then help to drive that growth from a growth engine perspective. And the marketing elements almost become secondary to the business solution, providing that we give. So marketing intelligence and business intelligence pieces are really pivotal. So a whole mix of clients in that and we’ve got international, national, regional, local. It’s a real range and we’ve never sort of specialised in one niche. We’ve kept ourselves fairly generalist deliberately, even though a lot of the books you read and a lot of the advice you get is to specialise in one thing. The diversity has given us, I think, more security during COVID and it’s also given us a real breadth of knowledge to be able to help a range of different customers.

That’s true because that’s why it does work in a way, because say for example, if one channel isn’t working or if things go south and whatever your commitments are with the client, that something like that particular channel is not doing just as well, at least you have some other engine running that could take you to get that client to that particular goal altogether. So that’s why I believe and I also like the approach, the long-term approach that you take. So again, from the agency’s point of view, I’m sure that must be giving a stable recurring revenue as well for the retention rate of the agency.

Right now it’s 85%. Well, we do an analysis of this at the end of every year. So our financial year ends at the end of August, so we need to do this year. But I assume it’s going to be very close between 80 and 85%. And we always benchmark ourselves to be above 80. In the last four or five years, we’ve never fallen below it. So I think it’s pretty high. The industry averages, we look at around 40-50%. Right. So there’s a lot of movement generally in marketing, unfortunately, I think we all know that. But if you can stay above 80%, I think you can helpfully grow then. And from a secure base, anything apart.

From this long-term strategy that you do to kind of improve the retention rate of the client.

Yeah, I think it all starts from the beginning of the relationship. I always tell my team, if you have a relationship of any form in life, whether it’s making a new friend, or a romantic relationship, those first few months are the most important. Right. So we’ve all been there. You’re hanging off that next text message from somebody, or you’re waiting for them to call you, or you’re waiting for love and there’s a lot of trust elements that need to happen in those first few months for people to settle and calm. So it’s really important that in those first few months we really become an indispensable part of that client’s journey and plan. So to do that, we work now through offering workshops at the front end of every client journey. So we have at least half a day with them. We try to get them to come to one of our offices where we can look after them, we can really bring them in and then we have regular touch points. So we work on what’s called a four, three, two model over the first three months. So in the first month they hear from us every week.
So four weeks of the month, in the second month it’s three times and in the third month, it’s twice a month. So a bi-weekly call is where we end up. Some clients prefer to have something like a monthly and some will ask for a weekly to continue, but we have to try and balance the workload. So ideally it’s that four, three, two and that tends to give us lots of touch points with that customer to really engage them, really settle them and really just build security around the relationship.

That makes sense. I think relationships are the key to all things. Anything apart from that, I think one of the other things that might be working in your favour would be because you are a full-stack agency and for most like every service, the client can rely on you guys. So that also kind of minimises the whole listing and works in your favour, right?

Definitely. Yeah, definitely helps.

Let’s talk a bit more on the digital PR front. That’s one of the main services that you provide and I would love to know what different kinds of PR services you offer to customers.

Yeah, so PR is actually interestingly our newest service. So we introduced PR around twelve months ago, maybe a little bit under twelve months. And the reason that we did it is we saw such a growth in the correlation between SEO and PR and that sort of deep connection of having genuine stories, genuine news hooks, and real things to go out and talk about to the world. I think we all know that historic SEO, you know, you could do guest blogging and even at one point get away with paid links or whatever and it would help with authority and you could get away. But the world has changed and actually, really what works now is having genuine stories and real things to talk about and getting a genuine placement and building content that is shareable, that is engaging, and actually has meaning and purpose. So we built the PR team to do a mix of two things. A bit of traditional PR for us with press releases and media contacts, a bit of media buying as well with paid advertorials, etc. But then also to work closely with the SEO team to help create content that was going to be really beneficial and shareable.

Got you one question about it is usually the PR content, they do carry that sponsored tag. What are your thoughts on it, with respect to SEO? And it carries that sponsored tag backlink to your client site. How’s the impact and what are your thoughts about it?

Yeah, I think I guess it depends, right? The most quality content that we see works is, let’s say you create a shareable blueprint on a topic or a white paper or something, and it’s genuinely usable by other companies in that niche or in that industry. So if we create just to put it into dislike concept, we create a marketing-based white paper that has some really usable chart, statistics, facts, and stuff in there and we put that out as the open source. We know that people are going to link to it and use it. Right. Some pieces of content we’ve done like that. I’ve got 6700 links to it and which is fantastic. Incredible result. And why not? Because we’re giving it out that we’ve spent lots of time, resources, and financial incentive into building that as something that’s shareable. And from a Google perspective, that is the most genuine form of content, because Google can see that that’s a quality piece of content that’s behind and liked and linked to and that will drive really good authority, obviously, back to the host site and that gives them benefit for the work that they put into getting it there.

So we see that works really effectively, obviously. Yes, you can sponsor content as well. From a link perspective and linked perspective, it’s not quite as powerful, but it still has some waiting. Right. I think having a mix of links coming in, a mix of do-follow, don’t follow, a mix of different Das, all of that makes a huge difference. It’s about the combined effort. If you only had 60 Das, for example, it would look a little bit dodgy. So you need a bit of a range.

And that’s the best thing about digital PR that’s so good for your branding, right? Even if for any of your business keywords, say a PR article about your brand on XYZ Media site is ranking high, then also getting your visibility, you’re still getting your fair share of referee traffic to your site and turns into a positive ROI altogether for your business. Right? So investing in disruption makes perfect sense. But how do you decide when is the right time for a business to invest in digital PR?

I think in 2022, a business not investing in a form of digital PR, and that’s a mix of a business brand, but also sea level brands and board brands as well. So the owners, the founders, if you don’t create a personal brand, and we all know it, right, when we think about the big brands of this world, you always think about the CEOs as much as you think about the brand, right? Whether that’s Elon or Jeff Bezos or whatever, you can say those names and think of the brand behind them, right? You don’t even need to say the brand because they are just as big, if not bigger in some ways than the brand. So you need to elevate and have a personal brand approach, which again is a form of digital PR. But it is important because that’s interlinked. And then you also need to focus on digital PR for the business if you want to stand out, right? It’s becoming increasingly difficult, especially for smaller SMEs to get a chance to stand out. If they’re not doing the fundamentals of digital PR, they will be lost.

That’s true and that’s very wise actually. Personal branding is extremely important and especially when you’re launching a new business person behind that particular brand anyway has that skill or expertise or launching that particular brand, right? So leveraging that first makes better sense and then you can kind of build onto the new one on top of it. So that makes perfect sense.

There’s a saying contact equal contracts, right? And it’s about network and your network is your net worth. And I take that. They’re a bit cheesy, but I really agree with them, right? It’s about building out that network, building out the credibility, and using what you start with. So if you’re a startup business or scaling up I do a lot of advisory work with these types of companies. I’m like, look what’ve you got in your own network right now. That will be your initial ambassadors. They’ll be part of your tribe. Like, how do you get that first bit of messaging traction? How do you incentivize them to start banging the drum for you? And that’s the easiest place to start, right? Those people know you, they’re engaged with you. Even if they’re a distant connection on LinkedIn, they’ve got some sort of affinity to you because they’ve at some point looked at your profile or there’s been something, use that to your advantage because it is an advantage.

And how do you go about doing the PR evaluation altogether? Like measuring the success of a PR campaign, what does that process look like?

Yeah, there’s different ways of doing it. The typical traditional way of measuring PR is like advertising value equivalent. So basically, if you got placement in a newspaper, for example, and it was an organic placement for free, how much would that cost? You had to pay for the same spot. So that’s a really good way of doing it. And also then looking at readership numbers. Website traffic. Obviously from a digital PR perspective. Links are another thing. Of course. The quality and the DA of those links. There’s all sorts of ways of doing it and then effectively. Like if the content piece is very much brand driven. Which often it can be with PR. Really looking at what direct traffic impact that has over a period of weeks afterwards whilst that piece of content is live. Can really help as well to correlate back what the impact has been for brand related search terms.

Let’s talk about SEO. One of my favourite niches in SEO is link building. Are there any of your favourite link-building techniques that you practise more and kind of enjoy doing?

I think link buildings is such an interesting thing, isn’t it? Because for a lot of agencies it’s a dirty word, and for a lot of SEOs as well, they either love it or they hate it. A lot of technical SEOs that link building. A lot of content SEOs don’t understand link building. It’s a real skill, actually, if you can do it. And I think really what it comes down to. And again, let’s go back to some of what I’ve said already. It’s about having like, genuinely useful content, in my opinion, that people will want to link with. It’s also a little bit about newsjacking in this day and age. So if you can jump on a trend at the right time and have a piece of content, it can get lots of links and lots of pickup, right? Journalists and publications are super hot on trend driven comms, so you can get out the door quickly, even with like an image that’s like some sort of meme or something that can then go get huge exposure. It can get picked up by publications, it then links back. There’s all sorts of ways. I mean, obviously there’s the traditional tactics as well, from finding broken links to trying to repair those, to, again, outreaching directly to third-party sites.
There are lots of things that we do in the agency, but the things that I think are the most successful are like genuine content-driven newsjacking-type stories that get initial traction and picked up quickly.

What are your views on one of the low-hanging fruit that I’ve seen, and a lot of businesses and even marketers kind of like not leverage that as unlink mentions about? So that, again, is something people should do. Do you practise that and do you use any of the tools to kind of track those things down?

We do. We work at the moment with a couple of tools that allow us to look at the link quality link data and then try and look for opportunities that might have been missed, like those link mentions or tags. But it’s interesting because I know that there’s a lot of SEO agencies out there that don’t really do much link-building at all these days, right? Even though, yes, it’s still quite a heavy rating in the algorithm. So, yeah, I think there’s opportunity. There’s definitely an opportunity. And as more people move away from it and more into digital PR and that way of generating links, I think some of the traditional tactics like you’re talking about are still left there as low- hanging fruit because people are focusing more on the bigger stuff. So yeah, having a mix of both strategies probably makes a lot of sense.

And is the agency into paid guest posts, is that a service that you provide?

We still do some, yeah, we still do some. Obviously from an authority perspective, it can be a quick pick up and it can definitely help. And again, talking about diversity, the city of a link portfolio, you would expect to have some guest posts in that. So it is still relevant, not as powerful as some of the other stuff we’ve talked about, but still relevant. Yeah.

And when you do that, Luke, is there any specific criteria, like when you’re finalising a publisher’s site to do a guest post right, is there any specific list of things that you take into account before approaching that particular blog or not?

Absolutely. So for us, it has to be a site with genuine traffic and niche relevance and it has to be something that we believe could drive some sort of ROI, not just the link placement. So we no longer just build links for just the link authority.

Is it like the literary traffic that you get from it?

Exactly, that’s a big part of it. And also just really making sure that there is some intrinsic value because we’re very transparent with clients, right? So we will share everything and we will back up the reason why. So whereas years ago you could get away with just doing placements on blogs that were never probably seen or read, that’s the thing in the past. So it has to be in areas where we’re proud to be placed and we’re proud for our clients to show that has an inherent value but also offers some link value as well.

That’s true, that’s why looking into the traffic, the traffic trend, the organic trend of any blogger before approaching that makes sense, just checking their history, whether they have been penalised by Google in the past or not, and you don’t end up becoming that spammy link altogether, that will come your SEO. Let’s talk about some of the tips that you can share because you’ve been mentoring startups a lot, right? And one of the biggest challenges that the startups have is they have less time and less money, right? And SEO is something that needs a lot of discipline long term. But are there any tips that can help them to deliver quick SEO results and still at least put their short-term goals of leads and traffic and then still have sufficient ROI? And for long-term goals?

Yeah, I mean, look, from SEO, we all know it’s a mid-long term plan, right? But there are things you can do. Especially if you’re a localised or smaller startup business. Using Google My Business. Your GMB to your advantage. Making sure that you get some map placements on there. Drive reviews. Obviously from your customers and really start to get some traction that way that helps to build credibility and trust. I think putting out fresh and relevant content on your blog. But also on GMB as well as quick wins. And they are just time driven, they don’t cost money to do that. I think outside of that, then leveraging social media, of course, to build a community and that tribe, that initial ambassador, the bit that I talked about, you can do that quite successfully through social media. Depending on whether you are a service, B2B or D2C type business, you might have different ways of doing this. But if you are a B2B business, you probably do very well using and leveraging LinkedIn with your personal brand. That’s the way to go and it doesn’t cost you anything to do that and have a voice.
If it’s more sort of D2C or local type business, again, leverage that network and try and do the things that are very inexpensive to start with. And then once there’s some budget or if there’s some money there, probably looking at some paid channels to acquire, there’s that sort of build versus buy approach, right? You can build organically, it just takes longer, or you can buy a bit as well. And the ideal, the sort of perfect marriage or harmony, in my opinion, for online success is having as many channels attributed to each other as possible. So really trying to leverage both would be the right approach.

And since you mentioned social media, and that’s one of the main services that you provide, how effectively do you think social signals kind of impact the SEO sign-up for business altogether?

It’s a really interesting question, right? Because again, there’s a lot of mixed opinions on this we do see and again, this comes down to brand, right? It comes down to the PR stuff we’ve talked about. It comes down to everything. If you are actively building more social presence and interactions and intern, social signals are strong as Google can’t crawl all of those private sites like Meta, et cetera, but it can see that there are brand based mentions and it gets wind of that. We do see a correlation in uplift in rankings. So there’s a lot of agencies that say that that’s BS and you don’t. But we’ve tested it over the last few years and there is a correlation. But I think it’s a correlation not just of the Google rankings, but of the overall brand experience, right? So if direct traffic increases through, then all of that carries everything. And if Google can see that your site is getting more traffic, you’re more relevant over another site, and part of the algorithm will start to play in your favour. So it’s all interconnected.

I actually experienced it myself and like five, six years back, I used to run a blog, a woman-centric blog. And at that particular time, even the Facebook algorithm wasn’t that smart. So what I used to do is like in and around relationships, dating, all of that stuff, right-hand skincare, anything that resonates with the female audience specifically targeting us. And what I did was I had few people and the full-time job was just to find new groups on Facebook and share anything new, any new article that we are doing on a daily basis. And they were promoting it like crazy in a day. Around 800, 900, sometimes even like 1200 groups with tons of them on Facebook. And I’ve seen really competitive keywords around that specific genre, right? Abusive relationship or just the term relationship. I was ranking really hard and the SEO Skyrocketed, and I wasn’t doing much on the link-building from that particular time. And it was such a direct impact, and there were definitely some guidelines around it. They have to share it only on the open groups, on the closed groups, and most value out of it. But I think I was able to make that blog reach somewhere around 700K in monthly traffic in around eight to nine months.

The Dr was shit again, reached to something, I think it was 62 back then. That’s the level. And I’m sure now algorithms are much smarter, so the magnitude of the impact won’t be there, but still truly contributes. If you’re confident your blog article is getting shared multiple times, definitely you’ll get more value, you get more traffic, and more exposure. Right? So, yeah, it does impact your rankings too directly.

100%. Nice.

What are the main KPIs when it comes to SEO that you as an agency keep track of? Mainly your SEO analyst and strategist? And then what are the main KPIs that you refer to your customers? I’m sure there must be some differences there.

All those, it depends on their industry, right? So if you’re a B2B type business wanting legion from the site, they’re interested in ranking still positions because they see more traffic correlation from that. Obviously traffic time on site, all the basic metrics you’d expect. But really for us as a business, it’s about compounded growth and being able to show relevant traffic increases, obviously conversions, everything we do as a business is data led. So really what we want as the end result for any client is to drive more revenue, right, in whatever capacity that is. So all of the metrics and the goal tracking and everything we use through analytics is to flow into some sort of ROI. Obviously with SEO it takes a little bit longer. Sometimes that compound growth month on month is what we’re looking for across each of the core analytic metrics.

And let’s talk about one of the most successful case studies that you had, could be around SEO or any of the new services to back that success.

Yeah, it’s probably worth it because we just won an award, actually, the UK paid Media Awards, so we won with the same client, a company called VIP Bottles. And we’ve actually won two years in. A row, so we took over there. So the best use of automation and runner-up this year for the shopping campaign of the year. So we’re very strong when it comes to e-commerce within the company anyway. And a lot of our clients are using shopping or performance max now as we’re moving towards. But we also do SEO for them and we’ve supported them with PR, et cetera, so they’re a good client. When they started with us, there were, I think, five or six people. Now they’re like 40 over the last sort of two and a half years. The increase, and I quote, it’s not going to be 100%, right? But it’s around a 1000% increase in revenue. These are on our case study page and paid performance is up like 800%. It’s fantastic. So we’ve absolutely smashed it out of the park. And their organic traffic as well is through the roof compared to where it was in position one to three.
Rankings are in the hundreds now. So it’s been a really fantastic case study for us. And it’s a real omnichannel campaign that’s taken lots of moving parts and all departments in the business have been involved, which is quite nice because they actually feel connected then to the growth journey of that company as well.

And Luke, like the way people have been doing. SEO now has changed because the surf landscape has changed a lot over the years. The number of blue legs have been reduced significantly, and there are a lot of new features coming into play. Right. From your operations point of view, what all has changed and how are you guys trying to match and give that really good exposure to your clients, please?

Yeah, I think really what’s happened is where we would often sell SEO in isolation years ago, now we often sell SEO with other services, right? It’s rare that we just sell SEO now on its own. And I think the reason for that is the way that the services move, the way that the whole industry has moved, everything is so interconnected, right? If you’re not working on all of those attributed channels, you really do miss out. And for smaller companies, it’s hard because they don’t have the budget to do that necessarily. And if they are just focused on SEO, then there are less places for them to play. As you’re talking more, the industry is becoming much more pay-to-play. Right? And if Google could, it would turn its entire search into pay-to-play. But they can’t because of the history and their mantra being to provide the user with the most genuine information at the point of search. Now, if they’re all ads, then that sort of goes against that, right? But it’s about navigating that. And actually, from an SEO service perspective, we’ve become much more adapted at really helping clients understand how to navigate and how to still get value from organic.
But also maps position zero, the Snippets. It’s an ongoing ever-evolving process, which is where I think actually, for the industry, it builds a lot of stability in SEO. SEOs are needed more than ever, actually, when it was like quite a simple algorithm and there were a lot of SEO agencies making good growth and doing what actually arguably probably weren’t needed as much, right? You could have just gone and bought yourself a load of links and shot to the top of Google. Whereas now it really has become a lot more detailed around how you navigate the minefield and the ever-changing world of SEO.

Since you have been in business for a long time now, it’s been around seven years, is there any horror story that you would like to share? Anything that didn’t go the way you planned and didn’t work with the client?

Yeah, I think there’s probably been lots, right. Over the course of those years, there’s lots of times you reflect and you think, oh, I would have done that slightly differently, or the tactic was wrong. And as a business as well, when we started 2018, the service that we offered then is so different to the service we can offer today. And a lot of the staff have grown with us into fantastic specialists now, but at the time, there’s an element of, like, you’re winging it, right, and you’re doing the best that you can. And some of those early strategies and early deployments. God. I wish I could get hold of those clients again now and redo them. But I think that’s just part of the journey and I think really. Yes. I think looking back over some of the times where we’ve taken on clients that maybe weren’t the right fit as well. Which can be difficult for the staff and make the environment hard work. Typically. I would go back and not have taken on all the clients or maybe Saxon clients quicker. There’s lots of learning, I think, constant learning on that. But we’re in a space where a strategy today probably needs to be very different tomorrow, right?
So I don’t think that feeling of evolution and constant change is ever going to go away. I think that’s probably the thing I love about the industry the most as well. Because if this is cool, we’ve cracked it, we’ve got the blueprint for what success looks like. It would get pretty boring, right, whereas the way it works, and you wake up every day and you’re not quite sure what you’re going to wake up to or what new algorithm updates are going to come up or whatever, and that keeps it pretty interesting.

I think the best part about agency life is like, you always feel that you’re sitting on a roller coaster. It’s really exciting, definitely.

You know what, some people love that, some people hate it, but it is like you see a lot of people that go in house rather than agency or do a bit of both and then get bored in house because the pace is different. It’s exciting. Right. And I think if you like being challenged and you like having your back against the wall sometimes, you can learn and progress so much faster being in an agency environment than any other environment, and you’re surrounded by smart people that are having to innovate in their day to day lives, which I think is awesome.

You cater to so many different kinds of businesses and stuff. There’s no other niche that would give you such kind of exposure.

No, I agree. And again, in a generous agency like ours, 40 or 50 different verticals, you are dealing with such different types of clients and different people as well. Again, if you’re the person that enjoys that diversity to your day, like, no two days are the same. Right. Unless you want them to be. There are people that quite like, they want to just do content and turn it out or whatever. But again, you’re writing content for 20 different clients. It’s interesting. It’s definitely interesting.

I think we’re coming to an end here. Luca and I would like to have a quick, rapid fire with you. Are you ready for that?

I’m ready.

What is your last Google search?

What did I search for? I think I searched for an address. I was trying to go to an awards night last night. Probably nothing that sexy. And before that, I’ve been looking at holidays. I’m going to Barcelona next weekend for a flight. Probably.

Nice. What is the best advice you ever received?

Best advice I ever received was to put other people into positions that you can’t deal with yourself or that you’re not good for. Right. There’s lots of things that we’re great at. There’s lots of things that inherently, each of us are probably not that great at, and hiring people that can fill in those areas and really help elevate what you do best has been the best advice and best practice taking a while to get into, but it’s definitely the best advice.

At what age were you given the happiest advice?

You know, I have reflected on this lots of times. I think we all do. Probably when I was, like, travelling, you know, 22, 23, I travelled Southeast Asia. I lived in Australia for a year or two, I guess. No pressure, right? No commitment, no responsibility. That was great. I mean, it’s obviously not real life ever, but it was a dream life, so I was extremely happy then. But don’t get me wrong, I am happy now on the journey that I’m on as well. It’s just a different type of story, but yeah, that freedom was nice.

What career did you dream of having as a kid?

I always wanted to be an astronaut. I think it’s probably, like, you know, a typical one for a young boy, but yeah, I love everything about astronomy and the stars and following all of the cool stuff that’s going on with Blue Origin and SpaceX and stuff like that, so yeah. Who knows? One day, maybe I’ll be able to afford a ticket up in one of those ships. Who knows?

I’m sure SpaceX will fulfil you in the next few months. Please.

Yeah. Hopefully they are there. Yeah.

What trade most defines you?

What traits I think are probably resilience. I’ve always been entrepreneurial, and I’ve always had businesses, and I’ve always been pushing forward. Not everything’s always gone my way, and being able to, like, pick yourself up and get back on with it is something that I think I’m proud of and that I’m able to do.

Thank you so much, Lil. Thank you for all the time, time and valuable tips that you shared with the viewers. Really appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you. Really enjoy it as well.

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