Welcome to Marketing Lego Thought Leader Interview. Today we will have a word with Alexander Rehnborg, head of SEO at GetResponse, about his journey of building his remote-first SEO team. We will also talk about how goals are aligned for his remote-first SEO team, what KPIs are tracked, and more.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another Marketing Legos thought leader interview. My name is Harshit and I’m the Director of Business Alliances of two brilliant marketing SaaS tools RankWatch and WebSignals. And I’ve got Alexander with me today, head of SEO for a leading marketing platform, GetResponse, largely dominating the SMB space. A big welcome to you, buddy. I’m so happy to host you today.
Let’s start from the very beginning of your journey, man. I would love to know a bit more about you, the place you were raised, what you were like as a young kid, and how you made your way up to your professional journey so far.
I ended up being a content marketer at a software company in Sweden that produces accounting software. They had long discovered content marketing, but I think they were ahead of the game in the sense that they were employing journalists such as me because they realized that being able to produce content, engage customers, and educate them also led to better sales, better customer retention. At the time, they even had a customer magazine with a real editor and journalists writing it. I got into content marketing that way. When you start with content marketing, you discover SEO, so did I. I was trained by some consultants in the field in Sweden and I became an SEO specialist and worked with that for a number of years and found that that was really interesting. For sure, different from journalism. But if you’re a journalist, you are curious, you like to learn new things all the time. You can quickly acquire pieces of information and turn it into something. And in fact, you have to. When you’re a journalist, you work on a deadline and you go out, you make a story, and when you come back, you have to write something.
That’s it. And you got to have something to give the readers. I think that that translated somehow well into the business of SEO, where one day you wake up, you read a blog post, you realize that something has changed, and people are expecting you to come up with an answer for how you should react. I found that a CEO was an interesting field that combines the curiosity, the creativity of, let’s say, more content or journalistic oriented work, but also the technology part and the facts numbers business. That’s what’s kept me in the game for these years and will continue to do so, I think. It keeps on changing. That’s how I started out. Then I moved to Denmark, and was able to lead an international SEO team there within iGaming. It’s a sports betting casino. We IPO’d at the time, went in the stock market. That was a really challenging but interesting time. I learned a lot of things. The affiliate business is brutal and iGaming is extremely competitive.
For sure. It’s a very niche altogether.
Brilliant, man. For your love for PR, is digital PR still part of your big part of your SEO strategy? Is it something very used to, I would say, a tactic, or you don’t use it much now?
It is important.
It’s a lot of money making keywords as well that you’ll be targeting through SEO. A lot of PR sites would be coming up on top. And it’s not just your credit measure, it’s not just about branding, it adds a lot of SEO value as well. You get a lot of free traffic too from those sites. That’s one of the most overlooked strategies by marketers and business owners, but it really does wonders. I’ve seen it work brilliantly well for multiple business niches altogether. I think it’s nowadays a must to include strategy in your marketing altogether. Let’s talk about your current role and responsibilities and get a response of what your day to day activities look like.
I do a fair bit of that also.
Brilliant, man. I’ve seen your stats a bit, and you’ve been expanding very aggressively globally. Would love to know your approach and how exactly your team… Just like you mentioned, you have a remote post team. How exactly does that hierarchy look like? How do you guys coordinate? What systems do you use? Please tell us a bit more about that.
And that’s also fueling our SEO strategy, basically. So somebody who understands the language understands the market. Simple things such as getting grammar right, language flow, which always is better when you write it natively versus having a freelancing translator, for instance, doing it because it’s just not the same. Language is difficult. That’s one of the properties. Simple things like that, but also down to making a blog so we can get non-branded traffic in, looking over the product content, how we should position and present the features in Italy versus Poland, for instance. If you just take, let’s say, Poland and Germany, completely different ways of talking about the product. If you look at product marketing, what type of fact convinces people? That difference between the markets. Who’s going to have knowledge about that? Well, somebody who knows the language in the market and who does research, perhaps. Yes, that’s basically how the team is created. Then we have a small sub team emerging, especially around the Asian market market. Yes, I’m the person responsible for the English speaking markets where the United States is our biggest one. I’m also managing an SEO manager in Vietnam. It’s a new experimental place for us, but it’s among the tough countries for us to deliver revenue over time.
We see big growth there and we see big possibilities.
I think a lot of SaaS companies do have a support team setting, maybe in some South Asian countries, for the fact that it helps them reduce their operational cost to a lot of extent. That’s one of the biggest benefits that I see. It might not be true that they are serving that specific market. That’s a global support team setting out in South Asia. That’s there, but that’s brilliant. How do you go about building a remote first team altogether? What exactly goes into the planning and then maybe planning a structure? I’m sure there must be multiple people working for a common goal there. How do you think about that?
Then it comes down to recruitment, of course, and finding the right person. You’ll make lots of discoveries along the way. I think with us now being remote first, I wanted to have a location agnostic hiring strategy, meaning that it doesn’t matter where you are in the world. If you’re the right person for our team, let’s talk. Of course, that has proved challenging sometimes. How do you send the money to a place in Brazil, for instance, if they don’t accept the local currency? How do tax authorities work in different countries? There’s a lot of things that you need to be prepared as a leader to learn if you’re going to enter, especially for us in Europe. We’re sitting in a small bubble in a sense because the European Union is very integrated. Once you go outside of Europe or the Anglo Saxon countries, it gets much more interesting. Some flexibility here in terms of budget, but also in terms of having patience and really learning how things work. I think that’s something that you shouldn’t underestimate. Yeah, so finding the right person. I think as a hiring manager, you should be involved really from the start and not only let HR do all the work, but you need to also have your fingers in the play and really know that we’re finding the right person.
Since people from different countries have different approaches also in general, I think it’s also important to set up some type of work assignments or similar just so you get a feel for how this person approaches SEO. There are many different ways to do that. Just as one example, how is link building work in Russia, for instance, or in Vietnam? Think of two extremes, very different from here in Europe. That’s something that you need to be aware of also and have an open discussion about that during the recruitment process. Getting your facts right and knowing that the market is viable, they need to find a person that you can trust that rimes with your values and runs with your team.
That’s brilliant, man. Like you mentioned, there’s one very good point. There are a lot of ways to skin a cap. You hire a person, say, in Malaysia, and the approach will be entirely different from what you do sitting in Kuala Lumpur.
How do you align their goals? I mean, their processes, because I’m sure there must be multiple training sessions. You might be using some system to set those SOPs for them. It’s great. How do you approach it? Please tell us a bit more about that track.
Try to set standards. I like to set frameworks and best practices, but try to avoid doing A, B, C, and then you get D. Not to be too detailed. If you take a simple thing such as keyword research. There’s so many ways to do keyword research. Some people like to generate pivot tables. They want to see it visualized. Other people focus on something else. They don’t like Excel, for instance. They want to work instead of tools. From my side’s standpoint, I would say that’s fine. Whatever method you want to use, it’s up to you. But there needs to be some basic criteria. We want to know if the search is intense. We need to know that we’re going after the right keyword. We need to segment the keywords together into a content piece. Otherwise, we can’t plan what we’re going to do with the keywords. There are some things that need to be there. But if somebody wants to adjust a template that we have to their needs, great. Actually, I promote it. In some cases, let’s say we have a keyword research template, we have created four or five different versions of it. Someone likes to use their version, somebody likes, somebody else likes to use their version.
It’s good. As long as we arrive at some standard level of quality.
Then, all is good. I think templates create lots of them, but allow for flexibility and also document the processes. Make it really clear. Step by step, use screenshots, maybe even recorded video. This is also great for onboarding. Somebody new comes in. It takes a few months to learn how a company works, especially remotely. When you’re not able to see your manager, maybe directly physically, there needs to be material that you can consume. It also takes some relief, I think, off of the shoulders of pressure off of you as a manager because you can actually sit back and say, you know what? I’ve already created some documentation for you and you can do it when I’m sleeping and you’re working because we have different time zones. It’s not a problem. You can go in, you can check the video and pop your message the next day. It’s really important to set the processes. It is work. It’s a lot of work, but it pays off long term, definitely, especially when you build out a global team, because otherwise you will have to repeat the same thing over and over and have these discussions. That’s really important. Then you mentioned training, and this is also really key.
This is what people demand today. Okay, you got processes, you got templates. How can I grow in this team in this company? This is what everybody asks. It’s not just about compensation and about whether we will meet at a conference. These things are important, but people want growth. And if they feel like they can’t develop in a team or company, take them to leave. And people discuss a lot now, the great resignation, a lot of people turning off the labour market. I guess it’s somewhat of an American phenomenon, but it’s probably true also here in Europe that we saw a lot of people switching jobs because they realized that, hey, remote first, I don’t have to work in the same city where I live. That’s a game changer. So what you can do as a manager is to create training material and a clear development path. Make it really clear what is my next level and what do I need to know and do to get there. This is really fundamental, but a lot of companies that I talk to, they don’t have such a plan. They will tell you that you can become a senior one day, you can become a leader one day.
We don’t know when and it’s not really clear what you need to do to get there. But there is such a role for you. But most people today will ask, Give me a plan. When can it happen? I have something to strive for. We as managers, we need to build out that plan. Super important.
That’s very wise and brilliant, to be honest. When you have a clear laid down plan in front of your team, they know what skills they need to acquire and how to grow within. Definitely the sense of belonging has increased. That’s very vital for sticking to and building that brand loyalty all together. I completely agree with everything that you say here. Let’s talk about some of the benefits of hiring remote force teams. You clearly mentioned that there’s a good understanding of the market that they have. What, apart from that, do you like with respect to the benefit that you can get from your experience all the way until now?
This is really a market standard soon. But the benefits, I think one of the most obvious ones, is to find the most appropriate talent. Let’s say that you would like, as we would like to expand in Latin America. Well, if we don’t have an office there, previously, most companies, they wouldn’t even consider doing such an expansion because traditionally you need to have an office, business entity, HR, legal, finance, the story. And you make a huge investment. It takes at least one to two years to set that up for a startup, maybe six months if they’re super fast and nobody knows what the result will be in a couple of years. And now you can actually just reach out to key people that will start to get the market growth going. So in my case, I’m looking for SEO managers. If I can find a person who has the background or is sitting in Latin America, as we did do, we found one in Brazil who is now actually moving around from place to place, then you can actually start to prove to the board that, hey, if we invest in Brazil and if you give it a few months, we might be able to see some growth and results and then you can request more funding.
So, find the talent that’s most appropriate. That’s not just in the city or in the same country. That’s a huge benefit. That’s something completely new. I think also hiring speed in general. I mentioned earlier that it can be problematic or challenging to hire abroad, and it can be sometimes for sure. But there’s still a factor of speed because previously when you had an office, it took so much time. You often need to do relocation to convince the person to move to the city to be close to the office. The story was a completely different job market. Now the person is sitting somewhere else. In some cases when we’ve had talks, they’ve said, You know what? I live in this country right now, but next month I’m going to live in another place.
That lifestyle is becoming very popular now, especially in our niche. It’s been around, to be honest, but you correctly mentioned it. Pandemic just skyrocketed that particular thought process altogether. I also frequently travel a lot. I’m sure you will also enjoy your time. But yeah, that’s the reality of it.
It is possible. You just need to sit down to the ground rules and champion those. Usually in my experience, it really works. I think the last one, besides letting your talent move to where they want to, that’s a benefit. I think the last one is also truly getting to know a market that you’re expanding into. Let’s say that you’re based, let’s say in India and you want to expand into Malaysia, for instance. It is very difficult to do good marketing work if you’re not in Malaysia because what are they talking about in the news? If you go on the street in the shops, what’s the mood of the business people? This matters. Right now, we are in a really inflationary situation, I guess, not just in Europe, but in many other places, including the US, that affects customer potential to buy, subscribe to a SaaS service. You will not pick up on that unless you’re in a place. That’s where the physical aspect comes in, I think. So being able to truly understand the market, to do a good job, even as the SEO, just think about doing outreach. We have people in our team who meet up people physically when they do outreach.
That’s impossible if you’re just using your phone or using LinkedIn. Truly expanding somewhere locally, you can find that person living there without having an office there. At least not yet.
Very nice! Let’s talk about a few ways, how you judge the productivity of your remote first employee as your manager specifically. Which KPIs do you mainly keep track of for ensuring that they’re delivering what’s being asked for altogether?
Are they ready to level up and to actually do marketing work to earn more money, hopefully? So these are the things that I look at constantly. Otherwise, benchmarking is the KPIs that we have. That’s organic signups and actually even verified signups. So people who go in, enter the email address and so forth and verify that account. So we know it’s not spam, which unfortunately is something we have to live with, like death and text. Then I think when it comes to motivating people, this is an interesting part, but I think one part is social. How do you create social identity and belonging in a remote first team? I don’t have all the answers to it, but it’s something that we’re discovering. I know that physical meetings matter, meeting up. We were recently, just as an example, our whole global team attended the Friends of Search SEO conference in Amsterdam in Holland. We had people flying in from Colombia, from Vietnam, from Italy, not Germany, but we have from Poland and Philippines even. A bit of a logistical challenge to be fair, but it worked. It also proved that you can gather such a global team together physically.
I think it should be done now and then for people to see each other. It’s about trust. It’s about feeling that we are a team, we know each other and we have respect for each other. And you need now and then to have that physical check in, I think. That’s something that really matters. And also when you go to an office space, there are some social aspects that are really important that we don’t think about that I think we noticed when we were in these lockdowns, most of us during the pandemic. Somebody patting you on the shoulder on the coffee machine saying, Hey, great work yesterday. How do you do that remotely? How do you do that over Slack? That’s not so easy. As a company, I would really look into online systems that try to substitute that online. We are using one called Culture app, which is really interesting. You can give public recognition to people there. You can ask people for feedback professionally, and they will need to give you feedback back. You can set up personal goals there. That part, which is both social and professional, we need to find new ways online to stimulate people, to reward them when they do a good job and give them feedback when they need that.
I think that’s really important. Then for creating, yeah. Then involvement and engagement, we talked about building a personal development plan. I think that’s just something that’s just key. It’s the baseline for everything else. Document the career opportunities, make it clear for everyone. Don’t hide it, leave it out in the open so everybody can see what the possibilities are. The last one is remote first working style. That’s also something that’s in the making in every company, but flexible working hours is just a must. I think also that documentation like we talked about is key. When you cannot talk to people at work, at the office, then you need to be able to document it so that they can read it afterwards. Meetings need to be recorded so people can see them afterwards. Use Slack efficiently. Product management is also something that I personally think is important. Being organized, making sure that all the work that you do is somewhere on the board so we can see them, so we can follow it. At any given time, if somebody asked me, What are we doing right now in Italy? I need to have an answer. I need to know what we’re doing.
Are we spending the resources in the right way? And as long as people update and keep their tasks updated, then we don’t need to have a lot of check ins. Then everything is out there for everybody to see. So it’s a lot about taking that stuff that we used to do physically. When we stop and shout out the corridor, we’re saying, Hey, what product are you working on? That type of talk, which is really good, needs to be transferred over to the online world. I think we’re just discovering how to do that.
Alex, I would love to know, because you did mention before, how do you measure your maturity in a new market that you want to basically increase your presence into? By looking into your old stats and what business you’re getting, all of those things. But how do you measure your maturity of a new team member, remote first team member that you’re employing? What all criteria do you go after just to make sure that this guy is a good fit and would be able to do justice in the current room?
Somebody who can think critically, who can look at the practice and say, Yes, I like them. I follow them to a basic extent. But there are some things that I need to tweak for me to be successful. Or I have another experience that I would like to bring to the table. What do you think about this suggestion? This is the type of person that we are looking for long term because in the end it’s hard for one manager, especially in one country, to know it all. It’s just not possible. You need to find the people who can contribute with new knowledge. So keeping the same quality standard, same best practices that you as a manager need to uphold to do your job, but at the same time allow for some flexibility and find those people who come to you practically and say, I have an idea and I want this to become a new standard for the team. Perfect. Give me the data, show me how it’s done in the past and let’s document it. The majority of the person will be in the beginning, maybe there’s somebody who is discovering a field, how to do outreach in a new market.
That’s going to take some time and some practical experience. When you master something, that’s when you start to question some of the tenets. This is classical within SEO also. It happens all the time. We follow standards and then we realize that John Mueller, somebody from Google says, By the way, no follow on a link. We still look at those links just in a different way. Most of us don’t even know what that means. But it’s actually the same within the SEO team. You cannot map out all the work in detail, but you need to set the practices and the standards. Then some people who become more and more mature, they will start to question those or develop them rather. And that’s what you want as a manager, also a leader. You want that feedback and that input. I think that’s something that really reflects when the team has come to that point, and especially for each market, then you have a vibrant global team. And the people from different markets, they love to exchange this knowledge because it will give them new ideas. Something that works in Germany may not work in Italy, or it may.
We don’t know. We have to try.
Do you use any customs element system for your SOPs and just to push out the training material to your remote employees, or is there some other thing that you leverage for this particular object I want?
Any tool that you use for it?
The idea is the person who wants to grow in GA can go in whenever they want to, because they might be in a different time zone. They can go through the questions, they try to solve them. Then after that, usually, we jump on a call and we discuss the findings. Sometimes we do that in a group. A lot of my colleagues, at least the feedback I’ve gotten is that they really find it useful. They can discuss what is challenging about creating a report, for instance. In some cases, we have tasks to help the knowledge to really start, or we create quizzes also. It’s more for fun, but it’s a way actually to generate that engagement. Then we use a culture app to track this. Every year when we have personal development talks between me and my colleagues, then we can sit down and say, Okay, you would like to grow more analytics this year. How do you think it went? And then the good thing here is we actually have a solid base to talk about. It doesn’t become subjective, which is so common otherwise in many companies that it’s a thing of the manager saying that I think that you’re not good enough, or it may be even the opposite.
We also have a lot of inflation of titles nowadays in the marketing scene. So automatically people will be promoted. Here we actually look at the core facts. Did you actually advance in analytics? Let’s have a look. Then we can go into Kultramp, we can see the progress, and it’s actually up to each colleague to practically update their status. I support them to create the goals, to set up the plan, maybe to create some material, but it’s up to them to actually do the job, learn more, and let me know when they have come a good way. Then we had a discussion. That has turned out to be a really good thing. The nice thing is there is tons of training out there. If you want to learn SEO, you can go to Mars beginner’s guide. You will learn a lot. It’s much better than I will ever do in my life, that’s for sure. But the thing is, how do you apply SEO in a RankWatch, for instance, or in GetResponse? That is what’s interesting. Mars guide to SEO cannot tell you that?
Yeah! And you are giving more organizational level, your learning, your expertise, things that have worked really well for you in the past. So that counts better, right?
This is completely different from the old model where you try to hire somebody who already, we think, knows everything, and then you have lots of subjective ideas on how to rate people and how to discuss their progress. I think this new way of doing it was pushed forward by the pandemic. We had to figure out how to run the business without meeting each other every day over a coffee. We haven’t solved the problem, but we have come way further. I would say even if we would go back to the office on a hybrid or permanently, I would still apply this method, honestly, because it just works.
It’s real and actually one of the best things about these two marketing niches that I personally love and that gives me the kick to stay in the industry is because you would never acquire 100 % of knowledge. It’s always evolving. Every day there’s new things out there and basically reconstructing all that you know from the past. So brilliant. And for me, I crave for it always. It’s the best fit. I’m sure whoever is and whoever takes their job seriously in the digital marketing niche, this is one of the biggest things that you cling on to. It’s always an adventure. I agree. Let’s talk about some of the common challenges of working with your remote team and how do you overcome them. Since it has been pretty long now, since you’ve been managing these teams, I’m sure there must be really big roadblocks that you must have tackled.
On a contract basis, you hire these remote employees?
That’s one of the realization and the challenges that there are some bureaucratic things, some legal things that you just need to swallow and you can’t do much about it. You need to put up a smiling face. Yeah! Just complain, man.
Yeah!
You need to be really hands on and be involved with which country supports the Swift standard for banking, for instance. This is stuff that you need to know if you want to hire abroad. I think the legal and finance part has been challenging at times, but overall, we managed to overcome them. I think a big dose of patience and also, again, creating trust and mutual understanding with the other party. The colleague sitting abroad also wants to get the stuff fixed. Actually, all the parties just want to get the job done. I think not panicking and just being confident that you will fix it. I think that matters also. Sending positive signals and having some patience. It will sort itself out in the end for sure.
Especially when you are in a leadership role. You need to boost confidence, man. You cannot, especially to your reporters.
It’s fun and you will learn a lot.
To be honest, I do talk to a lot of people and SEO heads and department heads. What you’re doing is because you feel responsible for your team members and you have my respect for that. A lot of people would actually have this IT related stuff or finance related stuff. They would have just pushed it to that specific department and kept their hands up, especially. I’m just scared about the marketing. When you’re doing it, it’s actually very genuine of you. That shows character, man. My respect on those terms. Let’s talk about your compensation model because how exactly do you pay? Is it on the basis of location specific pay or is it a standard pay for a given role decided in Poland and that’s being stone written and you basically follow that? How exactly does that happen?
You cannot live on a Greek salary. That’s just common sense. So I think that’s something that you need to be prepared for also and open for as a hiring manager. And you need to do your homework there for sure. But the compensation itself and how it looks, it depends on the contract. We have all types of contracts when we hire, but employee contracts, regular role models, monthly salary. When it comes to people who have freelance business, I like to go with a simple, clear, static model of flat monthly compensation each month, not based on the working hours. It just wouldn’t make sense at all. We have flexible working hours. Some people work a lot of hours one day and less hours another day. It’s not the type of work that we would like to reward in that way. The more time you spend, the better you perform, for instance. That’s just not the case. I think also in general that when people work remotely, I think, at least for myself, I see a lot of other colleagues also. The problem for us is to basically close down the computer and get back to private life.
I think that’s one of the challenges with the home office actually, to separate between your private life and your work life. So for that reason also, people want to have a private and work life balance. You don’t want them to sit 10, 12, 15 hours a day or more just because of the importance of what’s being executed on, do we achieve the results? So that’s why we go for static monthly compensation. And then we have tons of different contracts within the freelance world, depending on which country you live in, basically. And then in some cases we’re able to offer benefits and sometimes not. That’s also something that depends on, again, on the country. And right now I can say that sometimes for each person, they have their own case. When we hired this third party company, we offered an employment contract, but it’s challenging for us, for instance, to offer private care outside of Poland because we just haven’t gotten to the point yet where we can still negotiate with healthcare companies. Here, I think as an organization, we have a bit to go. If you would like to do that in the future, you need a very robust organization and you need to do lots of research in order to do that.
I think right now I’m expanding quicker than what HR can keep up with in terms of that side. I think that’s something that needs to mature over time. But for people who are employees, at least in Poland, we have tons of benefits that go along with that besides salary. Something that we started early on was a monthly compensation for remote work. People sitting at home, suddenly you could consume tea, coffee, electricity, lots of food at home instead of going to the office. And we started to compensate people on a monthly basis for that. I think that’s a wise choice. In many countries, and I think including Poland, it’s going to become a legal requirement soon that you need to offer some type of compensation for people who work only at home. Makes sense. We also have a one off reimbursement for people to set up their home office because if you have the workspace, which is the first thing having a room to be in, you need a desk, you need a headset, you need all these things. And sometimes, it’s just break, you need to buy something new. So that’s something that we also do a one time reimbursement for.
And then something else that I thought was interesting that we also launched during the pandemic was a mental health help line. A lot of people felt lonely and I think maybe felt disconnected, especially in places where there were hard lockdowns. In Poland, we had one really hard one. We didn’t really have those tough curfews as they had in Holland just not so long ago, actually. But that took the heart of a lot of people. We offered a mental health help line online where employees can call in or do a video call and chat. The feedback that I’ve heard from people is that this is really appreciated. Unexpected move by Simon RCO, but that was a nice one, I think. Language classes, it’s something I use. I’m learning Polish. It’s something that I really appreciate. We also launched an employee stock option plan. For people who want to be long term in the company, who are advancing on higher levels, and somebody that the company would like to invest in, they get to have shares in the company. We’re not on the stock market, but being able to offer shares. A traditional model actually that companies used to have.
It was interesting for us to see that concept again because I think it can foster loyalty actually. Then we have stuff like sports cards, private care and private pension. That applies particularly to Poland, where we have negotiated those contracts.
Brilliant! Let’s talk about some of the best practices you use for reaching out to the new market altogether. Any specific tips that you can share?
The US is our primary market and all of the stuff that we produce originally as a whole, as a marketing team, is English first. But we found that in order to be successful in Italy, Germany, or in Vietnam, for sure, you need to have a native first approach. You need to start by looking at the keywords there, first of all, and adjusting the content. But also what are the phrases that people use? What are the arguments that people like there? Having people looking into that through keyword research, market research is really important. I think it even affects commercial rates.
You rightly mentioned, English in the US is so different from English in the UK and English in Australia. There’s a huge difference, the words, the slags. If you want your marketing quantity to be really successful, definitely that native tongue helps you a lot. I completely agree. Please go ahead.
I have a small question here. When you’re dealing with these language barriers, you’re improving your content, do you have your hire? Native writers? How exactly do you go about that, to be honest? Because I never really had a very good experience with these translator apps altogether. They don’t do a fair job. They don’t understand the tone of it. What’s your approach like?
Translation is just to do a literal translation. You take one word and you exchange it for another. This is the type of language that doesn’t sound great. If you want to localize something, you need to rewrite the content as you translate. That’s something that our SEO managers also do. They look at the English version, but they write their own version. But this is something that we also debate often with the localization team or translation team, and we exchange a lot of knowledge and experience here. How do we move from a language that is just a literal translation to something that actually flows and reads well? And then you need to give the person the freedom to slightly rewrite the content. And then at the end, the final point is you have native first. It’s written from scratch by somebody who knows the language. So I think translation has a role to play, but maybe in the beginning. And then as you see the market take off, you switch over and you invest more heavily into original content. That means the product content in Italian, maybe it should be different from the US English version. Maybe the people who come from India should have a different experience compared to the people who come from the US.
In fact, I’m pretty sure they should have. It’s just all about getting those resources in the budget. I think the best way to do that is to show that you have growth in the first place. So taking the language and the market seriously is key. And that’s where we differ a lot from some of our competitors like Mailchimp. They’re highly successful internationally, but they only offer their software in a couple of languages. They don’t have it in Vietnamese, for instance. I think that long term, I think the local approach will win. It is more complex, more challenging to set up, but way more rewarding. Also for the customers, they want to be able, most of them, to have customer service and to have a local language experience. It shows that you care about them. I think that matters. Otherwise, something that we have also seen that has been really good is link building is and will continue to be a thing within SEO, but we like to look beyond it. I think we’ve just come to the conclusion that building marketing relations is in the end more important. Sometimes that will translate into a backlink.
Great! That can help us. But also being mentioned on important websites or maybe doing an email campaign together, doing something on social media together. All of that will help to build the brand. And indirectly, it will most likely also build the SEO performance, especially on the branded side. So we can see that when somebody is engaging in outreach in a local market, it does translate over time into better performance. Sign ups, conversion rate, for instance, it matters. I think reaching out to people and building relations over time and connecting with brands that you trust, that you feel fits with the quality of the and the tone of your brand, that is something that we should do much more. You mentioned digital PR at the beginning of our talk. That’s exactly it.
That’s true. That’s so true. You correctly mentioned, just building relations for the sake of link building doesn’t make sense. When people talk about you on social media, sharing your links, all of those things, it does have an indirect impact on your overall SEO as well through social signals, all of those concepts altogether. Branding, to be honest, is really an important aspect. Instead of just focusing on your short term goal, increasing sign ups and all of those things that eventually happens if you have a good strong brand presence and you’re good with building relationships all together. That’s really it, man. I think we’re coming to an end here, Alex. I would like to have a quick rapid fire with you. Are you ready for that?
Shoot.
What was your last impulse buy?
Your last Google search?
What was your inspiration? And why?
Totally agree. Perfect!
Anything new professionally happening in your life or exactly in your current role right now.
And coming to our last question, what’s one thing you would like to change about yourself?
Measure, analyze and more. Take baby steps or even big steps. Measuring and analysis is a big part of it. So, I completely agree. Thank you so much, Alex, for all the time, all the wisdom, all the knowledge that you shared in today’s session. I’m grateful for that. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Harshit.
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